Commons talk:Photo challenge/Archives/2016

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I18n templates

I've added 2 localization templates ({{Entries tag}} and {{Examples tag}}) for section titles of new pages (Commons:Photo challenge/2016 - January - Diagonals and Commons:Photo challenge/2016 - January - Wheels). I hope you will like it. But for Entries tag I need a little help, because it is not so easy translatable via Google Translate as Examples tag. So maybe other translators will help to fill it? Okras (talk) 22:05, 3 January 2016 (UTC)

November Winners

Windows: Entries • Votes • Scores
Rank 1 2 3 3
Image
Title Stadt Freiberg in Sachsen. Moscow. Windows of the Mansion of Chertkov. Fayette Historical District. Windows in Canada
Author Kora27 Dmitry Ivanov Wingerham52 Massimo Telò
Score 13 12 11 11
Day and Night: Entries • Votes • Scores
Rank 1 2 3
Image
Title Pittsburgh skyline in daytime Laterne in Makadi Bay am Tag. Ägypten. Moscow North River Terminal in daytime
Image
Title Pittsburgh skyline at night Laterne in Makadi Bay in der Nacht. Ägypten. Moscow North River Terminal at night
Author Dllu Kora27 Mike1979 Russia
Score 49 32 19

Congratulations to Kora27, Dmitry Ivanov, Wingerham52, Massimo Telò, Dllu, and Mike1979 Russia. -- Colin (talk) 17:44, 5 January 2016 (UTC)

December winners

Red and white: Entries • Votes • Scores
Rank 1 2 3
image
Title Riding the Rhaetian Railway over the
Bernina Pass in Winter		 Storm Tossed Waves Herbst im Kurpark Bad Schlema.
Erzgebirgskreis-Sachsen-Deutschland.
Author GabrielleMerk Wingerham52 Kora27
Score 17 13 13
Action verbs: Entries • Votes • Scores
Rank 1 2 3
image
Title Plowing Cycling In einem Feld in der
Nähe des Dorfes im
Erzgebirge...
Author Laurent Bélanger Mk2010 Kora27
Score 27 18 18

Congratulations to Laurent Bélanger, Mk2010, Kora27, GabrielleMerk, Wingerham52 and Kora27. -- Colin (talk) 20:38, 2 February 2016 (UTC)

February themes

Another month comes around, and we are no better organised. Looking through the list of possible themes, I suggest two for this month:

I can set these up later tonight unless there are any better ideas. -- Colin (talk) 18:48, 1 February 2016 (UTC)

I am fine with those two, but I would suggest extending "Mailboxes" to anything related to postal services and package delivery system to make images more usable for more articles. --Jarekt (talk) 21:29, 1 February 2016 (UTC)
Looking at the articles, they are illustrated fairly well at present. The problem with targeting Wikipedia is that it only has room for a handful of images per article and a good photo challenge will generate over a hundred. Commons has a general "educational" scope, which is much wider. Adding stamps, and envelopes and postmen/women/vans, etc would make less consistent theme imo. There's plenty variety in letter boxes and lots of ways of photographing a post box. I suspect I won't get round to creating these till tomorrow now. -- Colin (talk) 21:35, 1 February 2016 (UTC)
It will be fine either way. I realize Commons mission is much broader than just wikipedias, but I value photographs that are useful for illustrating anything at any sister projects, more than images that are unlikely to by usable by any other project. And photo challenge allows us to provide quality photographs to replace some inferior ones. That is why I like themes which are more likely to be used. --Jarekt (talk) 02:58, 2 February 2016 (UTC)
@Colin: Thanks for keeping this running, I'm fine with the themes. I can do the German translations if necessary (Mailboxes=Briefkästen, Reflections=Reflexionen). Wish I could do more, but realistically I'm pretty much swamped with work IRL. We really need to optimize our processes and get more people involved behind the scenes if we want to keep this alive :-( --El Grafo (talk) 16:32, 2 February 2016 (UTC)
Jarekt, El Grafo, my hope with photo challenge is about the people taking part, not the images themselves. I want something to encourage me to get my camera out and try new things, and I think others want that too. The other forums like FPC and QI are all about the image already made and uploaded. And Wikipedia FP is all about it's encyclopaedic value. Last month's Wheel's challenge had over 100 participants, many of them new users or users who seldom edit here. The standard of images contributed is very good and surprisingly varied. I've no doubt we are producing educationally valuable images and some will end up on Wikipedia articles. But I think aiming to produce content for WMF projects isn't a primary goal, just a hopeful by-product. There are many fantastically useful images on the Diagonals challenge, yet none will illustrate an article on "diagonals" -- it's all serendipitous. Isn't that wonderful? We do need to organise better and build up a good set of themes. Themes that encourage people to participate and themes that produce images good and interesting enough that people will enjoy voting. -- Colin (talk) 19:41, 2 February 2016 (UTC)
Colin, those are 100% my thoughts as well. --El Grafo (talk) 10:28, 3 February 2016 (UTC)
Just had a few minutes to have a closer look at the entries for "Diagonals". It's absolutely amazing to see what people came up with. THIS is what this project is all about for me – take a break from the content-focused way of thinking we normally do at Commons. Do some real photography and think about the picture first. We need more challenges like this. --El Grafo (talk) 14:20, 4 February 2016 (UTC)

Ready for translation. -- Colin (talk) 21:13, 2 February 2016 (UTC)

German is done … --El Grafo (talk) 10:38, 3 February 2016 (UTC)
Thanks El Grafo. -- Colin (talk)

Hi. I already translated all templates of Photo challenge's themes to spanish. Please let me know in my TP if there is anything missing. I'll be glad to help. I'm not always here but I'm very active in es:WP. Regards. --Ganímedes (talk) 01:59, 4 February 2016 (UTC)

Is it able to copy the two links to the main-challenge site? I tried it but it don't work. Levin Holtkamp (talk) 11:30, 4 February 2016 (UTC)

@Levin Holtkamp: ✓ Done, thanks for noticing. The challenges are transcluded to the main page from Commons:Photo challenge/Submitting, so that's where stuff needed to be changed --El Grafo (talk) 12:46, 4 February 2016 (UTC)

"Diagonals" voting

  • challenge entry
    challenge entry
  • previous upload
    previous upload

In the "diagonals" challenge, there is an entry that is an almost identical copy of an image that was uploaded months before the challenge. On the one hand, the condition "must be new to Commons" is (technically) fulfilled, as the entered file was uploaded during the challenge month. On the other hand, the picture is not new to Commons at all, it's just a slightly cropped version of something that was already there.

So how do we handle this? Personally, I love the image and I voted for it at FPC, but I'm not sure if leaving it in there would be fair towards the other participants …

Pinging Famberhorst, the photographer. --El Grafo (talk) 13:38, 4 February 2016 (UTC)

Perhaps he forgot he'd uploaded it before. They are the same photo (same time, settings) though one was exported from Adobe Lightroom and the other from Canon's Digital Photo Professional. So I agree it should be disqualified (I would have spotted this if it had been uploaded as a new revision, as I check the oldest revision). Famberhorst, do you intend for two separate files on Commons? -- Colin (talk) 14:18, 4 February 2016 (UTC)
@El Grafo:
@Colin:
  • Good evening,

I have now found another photo of the same object. It is a RAW file that I need to process. will do that tonight. Then I'm going to upload the picture.

Sincerely, --Famberhorst (talk) 17:27, 4 February 2016 (UTC)

January Winners

Wheels: Entries • Votes • Scores
Rank 1 2 3
image [[File:|x240px]]
Title Wheel of a Prussian P8 Lokomotive Millwheel in the Tux Valley, Tyrol, Austria junk wheel sculpture
Author Ermell Wald1siedel CKCMCD
Score 45 13 12


Diagonals: Entries • Votes • Scores
Rank 1 2 3
image
Title Wood at Leaplish Ibex in the French Alps Boeing 747 taking off at
Los Angeles International Airport
Author The joy of all things Ibex73 Tequask
Score 19 15 13

Congratulations to Ermell, Wald1siedel, CKCMCD, The joy of all things, Ibex73 and Tequask. -- Colin (talk) 21:21, 1 March 2016 (UTC)

March themes

Even with an extra day, this sure is a short month. Ok, time to pick some themes for March. I'll have a look at the suggestions page later today, but in the mean time, anyone care to offer some here? -- Colin (talk) 08:27, 29 February 2016 (UTC)

 Question Did we already use Leaf venation, Rock faces or Urban Gardening? Regards. --Ganímedes (talk) 08:45, 29 February 2016 (UTC)
No, still fresh and unused ;-) For future reference: Used themes are listed here, their proposals/discussions are archived here. --El Grafo (talk) 10:06, 29 February 2016 (UTC)
The "Leaf venation" theme could produce great images but is this the best time of year. Looking out the window I see bare trees. Would it be best to wait a month or two for that one. -- Colin (talk) 10:40, 29 February 2016 (UTC)
It's true in northern hemisphere but you are right. --Doalex (talk) 10:48, 29 February 2016 (UTC)
Yeah, you're right. Here in south is summer. I forgot that. Even so, I think it could be possible to choose one Nature theme and another "Man Made" theme. I.e. Urban Gardening and Castles, or something like that. Just saying. Regards. --Ganímedes (talk) 11:01, 29 February 2016 (UTC)
At this time of year in the UK, most people's gardens look pretty grim. Attractiveness is important both to encourage photographers and reward reviewers. Would it be possible to run in April/May and still have nice gardens in the southern hemisphere? -- Colin (talk) 11:13, 29 February 2016 (UTC)
I guess. However, I think these problems will repeat over and over, and it is a pity loose good themes because of the season/hemisphere problems. Have someone think about season's duet? (i.e. Leaf venation/bare trees; etc.) --Ganímedes (talk) 12:32, 29 February 2016 (UTC)

(outdent) actually, looking at the "urban gardening" theme can we clarify what it means. The link goes to Urban horticulture which is one of those odd Wikipedia articles that seems to be trying to make a point rather than describe things. Does this include people's gardens round their own homes, or is it just "community gardens" or "allotments"? Does it include when offices and city centres have plants, trees or squares of grass & shubs? Would File:The Sky Garden.jpg be included in scope? If we can clarify this theme, then we could try to run it now and hope that Spring will supply something for those on the top of the planet. What about also Saintfevrier's "Inside out" theme that was delayed from December? For that, I think I'd like to limit it to buildings rather than any object, since that may make it too general. -- Colin (talk) 13:50, 29 February 2016 (UTC)

I think that people can use photos taken before march ? a Challenge is not for this month/year, the preference it's only the theme, people have photos without utility, until now. That's the Challenge also.
Yes for the "Urban gardening" and for "Leaf venation" people know themes. --Doalex (talk) 14:56, 29 February 2016 (UTC)
I'm not keen to run a challenge like "leaf venation" that may rely mostly on archived photos for most participants at this time of year. It is called "Photo Challenge", not "Upload Challenge", because I want people to take photos. Running two challenges with similar themes at the "wrong time of year" doesn't seem sensible. We'll just get people asking us why on earth we are running a challenge like that at this time of year. -- Colin (talk) 16:17, 29 February 2016 (UTC)
There's no problem. If doesn't like is possible to choose anything else. What about Numbers and Erosion? Or Undocumented personalities? Perhaps you can suggest a better challenge. Regards. --Ganímedes (talk) 17:04, 29 February 2016 (UTC)
@Colin : So, you choose themes into your domain. «  because I want people to take photos ». I keep my cool. Bye --Doalex (talk) 17:15, 29 February 2016 (UTC)
Doalex, I set Photo Challenge up so the purpose of this forum is what it is: a challenge to go and take photographers on a theme each month. You are welcome to set up "Upload challenge" where people upload images on a theme -- perhaps that could include people who upload others' photos such as from Flickr. Currently, we have a compromise, where generally pictures don't have to be taken during the month. A while back we tried having the previous month's winners choose the next month's challenges. But that needs someone to go asking those winners in plenty time, chasing them up if they don't respond, and then potentially still choosing from too many options. And I don't see anyone doing that. Ideally, we'd start organising next month at the 15th or so, and give us plenty time to discuss/choose. But I forget and nobody else remembers either. So we're in a situation where a decision has to be made and it might as well be made by me. I've accommodated one plant-related theme so I think that's a good compromise. And I remember that I postponed the "inside/out" theme from December so it is only fair to give it a chance now there is more light for us Northern Hemisphere people. I can't please everyone all the time. -- Colin (talk) 19:42, 29 February 2016 (UTC)
Colin For me (and other people ?) it's an opportunity to upload photos without obligation to upload a recent photo and I don't know Flick, I work for my pleasure on wikimedia Commons and it's all. You choose themes for the next month. Regards and adieu. --Doalex (talk) 20:00, 29 February 2016 (UTC)
I see current proposals:
--Jarekt (talk) 20:23, 29 February 2016 (UTC)

 Comment I think Jarekt you miss "Inside out", proposed by Colin. Regards. --Ganímedes (talk) 20:56, 29 February 2016 (UTC)

    • The "Inside/out" isn't "my" theme, but one that I rejected in December. We do have to remember previous month-suggestions and if we postponed something then make sure we pick up on it later. As always, there are far more suggestions than we can run (though we could run three if you want, and could run e.g. "urban gardening" for two months if it didn't get enough entries after one month). I'm out-of-time to set this up tonight so let's choose tomorrow. -- Colin (talk) 21:11, 29 February 2016 (UTC)
Sorry I missed it. Commons_talk:Photo_challenge/themes#Inside_.2F_Outside: I have a hard time picturing that one. May be more examples would help. --Jarekt (talk) 21:20, 29 February 2016 (UTC)
Jarekt, I've added some more examples. -- Colin (talk)
Another possibility could be Commons_talk:Photo_challenge/themes#Faces_in_Objects. I just proposed based on clarification of Commons_talk:Photo_challenge/themes#Rock_faces. That one just look fun. --Jarekt (talk) 21:20, 29 February 2016 (UTC)

(CoE) I vote for

..if helps to decide. Regards. --Ganímedes (talk) 21:23, 29 February 2016 (UTC)
Aaaargh.. new proposals :-) We need to narrow down, not widen!! However.... I agree that Commons_talk:Photo_challenge/themes#Religious_practices could be timely, for some at least. Perhaps we could do three. -- Colin (talk) 21:49, 29 February 2016 (UTC)

Ok, after consideration, I have decided it is best to postpone the leaf/gardening challenges for one month (and probably do them each in different months). I've created the following three challenges for March. I haven't yet posted the Watchlist since I can't create the February voting pages yet (there are a couple of nominations that need to be removed).

I hope there's something for everyone in that set. Happy snapping! -- Colin (talk) 22:47, 1 March 2016 (UTC)

Watchlist request posted. -- Colin (talk) 22:20, 2 March 2016 (UTC)

Respect to the limitation of "upload 4": the limit is for all the 3 Challenges or each? In Inside / Outside it's easy to reach that limit uploading just 2 sets of pictures. Regards. --Ganímedes (talk) 06:30, 3 March 2016 (UTC)

April themes

What shall we do next month? I would propose

  • Children at Play
  • and maybe something related to changing seasons, Spring (or Autumn is you are on the southern hemisphere)

--Jarekt (talk) 12:15, 31 March 2016 (UTC)

Jarekt, can you explain the difference/benefit you see for "children at play" vs the original name "Children’s games". I think sometimes it helps to be focused rather than very open. With "at play" I wonder if we will just get random photos of children, presumably at play. Whereas with "Children's games" we could ask people to name the game they are playing (e.g. "hopscotch", "egg-and-spoon race", "musical chairs", "hide and seek", "dressing up") so giving us some cultural information too.
Rather than try to come up with a seasonal theme to please everyone, we could for a technique such as long exposure.
There are three themes running in March. The "Religious practices" theme hasn't got a large number of entries so perhaps we could also keep that open for another month to try to gather a decent number of images. The other two have plenty. -- Colin (talk) 12:35, 31 March 2016 (UTC)
Colin I prefer "children at play" because when I see children playing most of the time it is not a named game like "hopscotch", "egg-and-spoon race", "musical chairs", "hide and seek", "dressing up", etc. but rather children engaged in their play activity whatever it is and it might be impossible to name it. I suspect we will get a lot of borderline Out-of-scope stuff and {{Personality rights}} might be an issue in some countries, but as with most challenges we might get some gems. I like the idea of long exposure and I think it is fine keeping "Religious practices" open for another month. --Jarekt (talk) 13:10, 31 March 2016 (UTC)
I think it was User:Anna reg who suggested that theme and she's not been active much on Commons recently. Does anyone else have any opinions either way on this? If we do change it, could it be phrased as "Children playing", as that seems to be simpler English than "Children at play" which sounds a bit formal. -- Colin (talk) 13:40, 31 March 2016 (UTC)
Perhaps we need to add a comment that per Commons:Photographs of identifiable people if the subjects have a "reasonable expectation of privacy" (such as a private event indoors) then you should seek appropriate permission before photographing, and to always understand the laws of the country you are in. -- Colin (talk) 13:45, 31 March 2016 (UTC)
"Children playing" does sound better. I would just point people to Commons:Photographs of identifiable people as with any other photography involving people and suggest using {{Personality rights}} template. We are not going to police this but it is something to be aware if you do not wish your files deleted. --Jarekt (talk) 14:23, 31 March 2016 (UTC)
As for long exposure where do we draw the threshold on exposure? Some time (30 sec?) or need for tripod? Would blurred moving water qualified? My guess would be anything in Category:Long exposure photography and Long exposure photography. --Jarekt (talk) 14:31, 31 March 2016 (UTC)
Hard to put a threshold on it because 1/4s might be fine for a smooth waterfall but not long enough to blur clouds. How about the WP definition: "a shutter speed long enough to sharply capture the stationary elements of images while blurring, smearing, or obscuring the moving elements". -- Colin (talk) 15:05, 31 March 2016 (UTC)
Sounds reasonable. --Jarekt (talk) 15:21, 31 March 2016 (UTC)

Pages created. Translations needed. I'll set up the voting pages tomorrow evening. -- Colin (talk) 20:12, 31 March 2016 (UTC)

February Winners

Mailboxes: Entries • Votes • Scores
Rank 1 2 3
image
Title Rural mailboxes in Santa Fe NM Postbox in Hungary Mailbox in Rustico Style, Mergoscia, Switzerland
Author Tomspro Ermell GabrielleMerk
Score 27 26 12


Reflections: Entries • Votes • Scores
Rank 1 2 3
image
Title Twins? Blasmusikfestival 2013 in Chemnitz.. Deutschland. Photo de nuit du pont
d'Aigues-Mortes dans le Gard.
Author Limoel Kora27 V.gimmelli
Score 17 12 11

Congratulations to Tomspro, Ermell, GabrielleMerk, Limoel, Kora27 and V.gimmelli. -- Colin (talk) 09:05, 2 April 2016 (UTC)

March winners

Inside / Outside: Entries • Votes • Scores
Rank 1 2 3
Image
Title Igloo satellite cabins at Law-Racoviță Station,
Antarctica - inside		 Sprial Staircase, City Hall, London Parliament Building, Budapest, inside
Image
Title Igloo satellite cabins at Law-Racoviță Station,
Antarctica - outside		 The Scoop at More London, with City Hall Parliament Building, Budapest, outside
Author Tsy1980 Colin Epistola8
Score 25 20 13


Faces in objects: Entries • Votes • Scores
Rank 1 2 3
image
Title Dinosaur like stone face in karnataka Tree Serpant The Elephant Rock, Apremont
Forest of Fontainebleau
Author Vinayraghavendra Hansons photo's Thor19
Score 34 28 13

Congratulations to Tsy1980, Colin, Epistola8, Vinayraghavendra, Hansons photo's and Thor19. -- Colin (talk) 21:24, 1 May 2016 (UTC)

June: LGBT topic in conjunction with Wiki Loves Pride

I wonder if challenge organizers would consider LGBT culture for the month of June (Pride Month in the United States and some other nations) as part of the third annual Wiki Loves Pride campaign. Campaign organizers will be encouraging people to create LGBT-related content and upload images related to LGBT culture and history, including pride events around the world. It would be really great to see participation from sister projects such as Wikimedia Commons, if possible. Thanks for your consideration. -Another Believer (talk) 22:27, 2 May 2016 (UTC)

Another Believer, Start with creating section at Commons talk:Photo challenge/themes, and creating gallery with several photographs that you think represent LGBT culture and history. If you look at past and proposed themes you can see that we mostly stay out of politics, race, social movements, sexuality or other polarizing topics, so theme related to LGBT would be quite an out-layer. This month challenges are birds and hats, they are kind of universal and any photographer are likely to find some subjects to photograph. Finding subjects for LGBT theme challenge photographs will likely be a challenge for large fraction of our photographers. You would have my vote, but the only way I can see it working is if organizers of Wiki Loves Pride campaign or other representatives of LGBT spread the word and encourage participation. --Jarekt (talk) 03:15, 3 May 2016 (UTC)
@Another Believer: asked 2 times for LGBT here and there... --LW² \m/ (Lie 2 me ...) 03:28, 3 May 2016 (UTC)
@Another Believer: With regard to timing, June is the key month to aim for. There's a bit of explanation why at the Library of Congress. There is a problem with finding high quality photographs, most of the LGBT Free Media collective are amateur shots with pocket cameras, but running as a theme on Commons would be part of the point of attracting photographers to go along to events in their country with the aim of upping the standard.
It may be an idea to focus on aiming to get a decent number of photographs in June 2016 of a high standard, and putting these up for FPC. Perhaps seeking to sponsor a few photographers for reasonable travel expenses could help? With even one good LGBT event photograph on Commons as a Featured Picture (there are currently none), this at least help in 2017 to run a Pride photography campaign with the FP as POTD to launch it, and perhaps attract a bit of press attention. Having done this, in June 2017 or June 2018 it might be easier to run a generic but LGBT related theme without it being seen as political or sexual, but rather part of celebrating an aspect of mainstream culture. For example, "Politics and politicians" and "Religious practices", were not rejected as polarizing topics.
For 2016, perhaps a blog post on the Wikimedia blog for selected LGBT events is achievable, as I've found the WMF to be positive on better public profiles for LGBT representation. For example there was no issue with using the LGBT Free Media Collective project in my 2015 blog post. --Fæ (talk) 13:23, 15 May 2016 (UTC)
We already have run Commons:Photo challenge/2014 - June - Wiki Loves Pride 2014. This is now the third request for a similar repeat challenge and the answer is the same. The first event was one of the least successful challenges, with only seven participants, none of whom were new to Commons, and only 15 people could find any enthusiasm to vote. We don't reject challenges because they are polarizing topics, but our most successful challenges are ones that interest a wide variety of people, that generate great photos people want to vote for, and that attract new/beginner photographers to Commons. Some of our challenges have had over 100 participants and many new accounts. There are numerous people-focused topics we could pick: Disability, race, religion, nationality, health and sickness, immigration, culture, language, media, love, hate.... the list is endless. When there are so many aspects to humanity worth photographing, there seems no case for repeating one theme. A quick google shows recent public campaigns include climate change, anti-austerity, anti-racism, International Women's Day, Walk of Witness, anti-Isis. All these events involve thousands of people who are passionate for their cause, and may merit inclusion in our project. By all means encourage folk to take photos of topics that interest you, but for a "photo challenge" to work, the topic has to be attractive to a large number of people, and the results high quality enough to be a pleasure to review (voting is done by volunteers too). Being worthy isn't enough. -- Colin (talk) 16:09, 15 May 2016 (UTC)
@Colin: I understand. But you can't blame me for asking. I'm just trying to recruit support for this project and its goals across all Wikimedia projects. :) -Another Believer (talk) 18:32, 15 May 2016 (UTC)
Well, Another Believer, I don't think it is fair to keep asking as though somehow the previous reasons will disappear or that repetition is a valid technique. So, I would appreciate you not asking every single year. The Village Pump is the place to make a general recruiting announcement to Commons wiki project. I'm sure if we ran, to pick examples from the list above, a "a witness to the Cross and the Saving Power of Christ" theme every Easter, or regularly asked for photos showing the harm austerity politics and healthcare privatisation is causing our nations, that people might question whether Photo Challenge had become the voice of a pressure-group rather than simply a fun opportunity to attract many photographers to Commons to take and review pictures on an interesting theme. I do wish you all the best recruiting photographs for your campaign, but also wish we had a bit more variety of "Wiki loves..." -- Colin (talk) 20:35, 15 May 2016 (UTC)
I propose that we have an annual "Wiki Loves Pride" photo contest that is separate and distinct from the Commons photo challenge, which is aimed more generally at enhancing coverage of under-reported topics. BD2412 T 00:35, 26 May 2016 (UTC)
Category:LGBT culture (or more specifically Category:LGBT Pride) is not an "under-reported topic" on Commons. Though one has to admit, a definition of "under-reported" is impossible to define for a project such as Commons, as there is no relevant standard to compare any topic to. If we compare ourselves to stock photo libraries, we have very few pictures of diverse-race office staff looking empowered, or of pretty thin ladies eating salad. If we compare ourselves to photojournalism, we have very few pictures of current events or of notable people. And if we compare ourselves to the billions of photos taken each year, that end up on social media, we under report on pictures of meals, cats, lego figures, babies and drunk people. It is fine to have a special interest and to want attract people to take images on that topic, but please don't pretend for a moment that LGBT is anything less than the most high-promoted people-topic on Commons. And there are lots of such topics, involving at least as many people, that are quite neglected on Commons. For example, Breast cancer is easily one of the most (if not the most) high profile and well funded medical conditions (to the point where those working in other fields are jealous), it affects about 12% of women worldwide, and Breast cancer awareness is massive topic involving continuous coverage in the media and frequent sponsorship and awareness events. Yet Category:Breast cancer awareness on Commons contains merely a handful of images and not a single QI let alone FP. -- Colin (talk) 08:01, 26 May 2016 (UTC)

June themes

Any suggestions for June themes? -- Colin (talk) 08:03, 26 May 2016 (UTC)

Let me propose:
Any other ideas? --Jarekt (talk) 11:56, 26 May 2016 (UTC)
Well the "Earth Science" got some support, but as I said a year ago, the Earth science subject is absolutely huge and could permit just about any outdoor photo, including a completely blue sky. Who judges that a landscape is "scientifically significant"? I mean, what isn't? A farmer's field is an example of a man made landscape which is quite within the domain of "earth science", and a natural forest or rugged mountain shaped by glaciers are all valid. Geology isn't (in my lay understanding) about landscapes but about the specific rocks at any one location. Geography might include landscapes, but not geology. Focusing on just "outcrop" might work as a theme, though we need to be clear on our definition. I found a better article: "Rock Formation" links to List of rock formations which all seem to be kinds of outcrops (where the bedrock is exposed). Examples include:
Those could produce some interesting photos. So I suggest dropping the "Earth science" from the name of the theme and just having "Rock formations", along with the above list for ideas. And I'm sure we can find some excellent photos for examples of each. -- Colin (talk) 08:12, 27 May 2016 (UTC)
That would be fine. It also sounds similar to proposed Rock faces theme. As for images which are off topic, maybe we can add to Commons:Photo challenge/Voting header some suggestion for tagging images as "off topic". It could be a Category:Image with comment templates. May be " off topic". Than someone can place a non-counting "vote" and suggest image might not be meeting the assignment. If others disagree they can still vote for an image. It is a tricky thing during the voting phase where you might like the photo but find less interesting photographs more on topic and vote for those. For example in Commons:Photo challenge/2016 - May - Birds in their habitat there are some great photographs of birds that have no visible "habitat". --Jarekt (talk) 12:15, 27 May 2016 (UTC)
Jiel, Jarekt, one problem with comments like this is that voters are encouraged not to look at the existing votes/comments before voting. It may be the first they see of previous comments is the wikitext edit window, where no icons or templates are visible. Perhaps a simple bullet-point comment saying "This picture doesn't display any/enough habitat so may not meet the theme of the challenge. Please review the theme description before voting". But I would only be confident doing this for clear examples. A bird in some tree branches could well be considered enough habitat, and a water bird in water could be considered habitat by some. And Jarekt's examples above included chickens in a coop as he was considering only wild habitat, whereas I think a farm bird in a farm is their habitat, and a town bird in an urban setting is their habitat. So it becomes a matter of opinion. Perhaps we can agree that a bird-in-flight with just sky or completely blurred and unrecognisable background, is not "in habitat". There's a danger, in tagging some images, that it makes the untagged ones seem fully acceptable. In the end, the degree to which the theme was met should form part of someone's vote, but, as we know, people don't read instructions either when submitting or when voting :-(. -- Colin (talk) 10:22, 31 May 2016 (UTC)
I think if some images are totally off topic, we have to remove them before the vote - for example, birds in their habitat, when there is clearly no habitat on the picture (just the head of the bird, just the sky etc.). The decision of removing a picture from the challenge should be argumented and eventually disputed if needed. But it is more fair for people respecting the rules. If a photo is border off-topic, we keep it to not offend people and let the voters have their opinion. What do you think about it ? Jiel (talk) 11:44, 31 May 2016 (UTC)
I agree that tagging something as off topic could be quite a matter of opinion, so I was thinking it would be more like a single vote on is the image on/off topic. I would also be quite uncomfortable to tag someones image as of topic if I was also taking part in the competition, due to conflict of interests. We would not want someone tagging everybody else images as of topic to improve their chances of wining. As for "voters [who] are encouraged not to look at the existing votes/comments before voting", I guess I might be one of the "people [who] don't read instructions": I pick images I will vote on without expanding the votes, but I always expand and read them before voting. I think " off topic" tag (or "does not meet the theme", etc. ) would be visible to people who expand the votes, like I do, or if we make it into a template and give it a clear name ( {{Off topic}} is taken) than it wound be readable to people looking at wiki-text as well. Also if someone does not agree with the tag then we can have discussion about it on the voting page. --Jarekt (talk) 12:21, 31 May 2016 (UTC)
Jiel, Jarekt, I think we are running out of time to remove entries and permit their removal to be challenged. I can see someone going "Well if mine is not permitted, then why do you accept this one?". Perhaps we should have done this earlier and kept on top of the submissions. From my point of view, I have an entry in the challenge, so Jarekt might consider I have a conflict of interest. I am also going on holiday tomorrow till late Saturday so will not be able to deal with any issues beyond midday tomorrow (and would appreciate if you guys could handle anything that comes up). So with the stress of preparing for holiday + preparing the themes, I vote for an easy life! I suggest you place a bullet-point comment (remember that *♥ can count in the event of a tie) saying that you don't feel this image meets the theme of the challenge, but without sounding like an official tag/disqualification. That way, people can read your comment and make up their own mind. I agree that the ones Jiel listed above are not meeting the theme. -- Colin (talk) 13:57, 31 May 2016 (UTC)
Ok. So yes I guess we can put a personal bullet-point comment for this on the voting page. On the introduction of the voting page, we should probably encourage people to give points to image which are respecting the theme. And for the next challenges, we have to 'patrol' sometimes and just remove the disqualified images (with a mention and explanation somewhere, for example here) before of the end of the challenge. I will try to look at it for the next challenges. The idea is to do it progressively, because as you said Colin, a bad example can influence others. Have a nice holiday :-) Jiel (talk) 14:10, 31 May 2016 (UTC)
Jiel, you can post a message on the talk pages of those nominators of images you consider to be out-of-scope and ask if they will consider removing/exchanging an entry that you feel doesn't meet the theme. I've already left a message for Teveth, who has submitted 6 entries where the limit is 4 and 3 of his entries aren't really in scope. But we only have today midnight UTC to make changes. -- Colin (talk) 14:20, 31 May 2016 (UTC)
I was thinking about this discussion as a long term approach, not something for today. I agree that personal bullet-point comment (maybe with {{Comment}}) might be the best way to go. Also "conflict of interest" rules should not be taken as an absolute. It is just that I would feel more comfortable commenting if I did not have my own image in the race, but a {{Comment}} might be low-key enough as to be less of an issue. Colin have a good holiday and we will try to keep an eye on the shop here. --Jarekt (talk) 14:40, 31 May 2016 (UTC)
For short term, I just post a message on the talk pages of those nominators that I consider off topic (see the galery above). For long-term, I think just patrolling and contacting submitters during the challenge will solve most of the problems. Jiel (talk) 15:55, 31 May 2016 (UTC)

Ok. I think we're all set for June. Please add translations for the notice at the top of Commons:Photo challenge/2016 - May - Birds in their habitat/Voting about the habitat. Also please add translations for the Watchlist notice for this month. -- Colin (talk) 12:31, 1 June 2016 (UTC)

April winners

Children playing: Entries • Votes • Scores
Rank 1 2 3
image
Title Children playing with a ball at the beach Children playing with their hands Kids playing Pallanguli,an Indian traditional game
Author Ivan2010 Ibex73 Abi blu
Score 31 20 19


Long exposure photography: Entries • Votes • Scores
Rank 1 2 3
image
Title Insect flight in the night, in front of a spotlight, 30s View at the hunting lodge
Jägersburg in Eggolsheim		 Christmas Tram, Budapest
Author Alchemist-hp Ermell Epistola8
Score 43 41 23


Religious practices: Entries • Votes • Scores
Rank 1 2 3
image
Title Abu Sami, a Bedouin from the eastern desert of Jordan,
prays in a nomad's mosque pointing towards Mecca.
Notice the pair of sandals outside the mosque.		 Woman burning incense at
Jade Buddha Temple in Shanghai		 Betende Frau im
Speyerer Dom
Praying woman in the
Speyer Cathedral
Author Sima shimony Ermell F. Riedelio
Score 56 18 17

Congratulations to Ivan2010, Ibex73, Abi blu, Alchemist-hp, Ermell, Epistola8, Sima shimony, and F. Riedelio. -- Colin (talk) 12:30, 1 June 2016 (UTC)

May Themes

Just to get conversation started I would propose:

but do not be shy to propose other themes. --Jarekt (talk) 14:01, 27 April 2016 (UTC)

As noted on the theme page, birds is a huge category, and adding bird watching makes it bigger. Also the theme page suggests making identification a requirement -- I'm reluctant to do that since it may put off some people who aren't experts, and will only end up with disputes over whether "duck" is sufficient. Correct naming and identification is something that can happen afterwards. See Category:Birds by action, for some ideas. Obviously, "birds in flight" is a particular theme of photography but often requires good equipment and technique to get anything worthwhile. We could have "water birds", or "urban birds", or "baby birds", etc?? -- Colin (talk) 19:54, 28 April 2016 (UTC)
I am fine with narrowing it down if you feel like the category is too big. Bird watching can definitely go. May be "wild birds", as opposed to Category:Captive birds, so no Zoo photography and no pets. I also had second thoughts about identifications requirement. We should not disqualify a great photo for bad identification, but we should encourage putting effort into figuring out what it is. --Jarekt (talk) 20:23, 28 April 2016 (UTC)
Having just flicked through my "Outdoor Photography" magazine, I enjoyed the photos of birds that included their habitat / natural environment. So I'm thinking of something like "Birds in habitat" as a theme. It is probably hard to exclude entries here, but perhaps guidance at voting will encourage images that best balance the inclusion of the bird along with its habitat. -- Colin (talk) 21:11, 30 April 2016 (UTC)
So a seagulls at the ocean are OK but seagulls at the city dump or a parking lot are not. I think that is fine restriction, but I also think that you just get more interesting pictures in the natural environment than otherwise. I reread it and I think I get it now: a close crop photograph of a bird's head might be less desirable than a photograph of the same bird interacting with it's natural environment. May be to be very clear we could say "Wild birds in their natural habitat". I was also looking through some of my photographs and sorted some as OK and not OK entries: --Jarekt (talk) 03:45, 2 May 2016 (UTC)
  • OK entries
  • Not OK entries
  • No habitat
    No habitat
  • No habitat
    No habitat
  • No habitat
    No habitat
  • No habitat
    No habitat
  • domesticated chicken
    domesticated chicken
  • Zoo photograph
    Zoo photograph
  • Zoo photograph
    Zoo photograph
  • Not wild birds
    Not wild birds
  • No habitat
    No habitat
  • Not much of the habitat
    Not much of the habitat
  • No wild habitat
    No wild habitat
  • wrong habitat
    wrong habitat
  • No habitat
    No habitat
  • Not much of the habitat, bigger crop might be OK
    Not much of the habitat, bigger crop might be OK
Colin, After I wrote it I noticed you have already published the challenge. I think the title and examples you provided make the intend quite clear. --Jarekt (talk) 12:01, 2 May 2016 (UTC)
Hi everyone, will it be a cleanup about the submitted pictures of birds for the May challenge ? It seems to me that a bunch of photos are clearly not conform with "birds in their habitat. The natural environment for the bird should form a significant part of the image". Cheers, Jiel (talk) 09:33, 31 May 2016 (UTC).
I did remove one picture early on (a bird in blue sky) because early bad examples can ruin the theme. But I haven't monitored it since. When the Photo Challenge started, we tried to be strict about entries, but it is a lot of work and can lead to arguments, and I hope PC is mostly an argument-free-zone (unlike QI, FP, etc). I will emphasise the theme on the voting page and encourage people to give support to those images that truly met the theme. If it turns out that a bird in blue sky wins, then I guess we shall have to be stricter in future. One thing I have learned from PC is that people do not read instructions. And it is unfair on those who do. -- Colin (talk) 10:03, 31 May 2016 (UTC)
We have to be very tolerant and open-minded. Anyway I think some images are really off topic, even if they are beautiful, for example : File:Red-tailed hawk at SF Twin Peaks.jpg ; File:ZOO, ATHENS 01.jpg ; File:ZOO, ATHENS 04.jpg ; File:Storch im Anflug - Marchauen.jpg ; File:Vier-Flieger.jpg. Maybe they are are others, but those are the obvious ones and they have probably to be removed. Jiel (talk) 11:37, 31 May 2016 (UTC)
So here are the pictures that seem to be objectively off topic. Some are exactly like the picture that you already removed. Are we agree that those photographs are disqualified for the challenge ? It will be more fair for people respecting the rules. What do you think about it Colin, Jarekt, Another Believer, Lie 2 me ..., BD2412, others ?
  • Not OK entries
  • Habitat non viewable
    Habitat non viewable
  • Habitat non viewable
    Habitat non viewable
  • Birds in the blue sky
    Birds in the blue sky
  • Birds in the grey sky
    Birds in the grey sky
  • Birds in the blue sky
    Birds in the blue sky
  • Bird in the blue sky
    Bird in the blue sky
  • Bird in the blue sky
    Bird in the blue sky
  • Bird in the blue sky
    Bird in the blue sky
  • This one may be acceptable (what do you think?).
    This one may be acceptable (what do you think?).
If we agree, we have to remove them before the vote is open. Jiel (talk) 12:02, 31 May 2016 (UTC)
Dang, getting excluded for having good depth of field control? I'll respect what you all choose with respect to my image (File:Red-tailed hawk at SF Twin Peaks.jpg), just kind of makes me chuckle that it probably would've been fine had I just left my camera on full auto and wound up with absolutely everything in focus. —/Mendaliv/2¢/Δ's/ 15:54, 31 May 2016 (UTC)
To my point of view, your photo is beautiful (really, and it is difficult to make such a photo). But, even if the field control would have been different, I think that we learn nothing about the habitat of this raptor in this image, it is just a raptor in the sky. For example, I think that this image File:Western Marsh harrier.jpg is more on the theme. Anyway it is my personnal viewpoint and your picture is still part of the challenge so people will decide. Jiel (talk) 23:23, 1 June 2016 (UTC)
Thanks, Jiel. You would actually be surprised. I just got very lucky that day. I happened to bring the right lens up to the top of a tall hill near the sea. The wind was blowing inland, and I presume deflecting upward with the terrain. The hawk just hung there, almost frozen. It was the damnedest thing to see in person. I probably could've sat there taking pictures of the same bird hovering for 15 minutes (I actually have about a dozen more of the same bird, all pretty much the same framing). Can't tell you how many times I almost slipped and fell on the hill, all my uninsured camera gear in a standard backpack, using a bulky Manfrotto tripod as a walking stick. That was a good summer. —/Mendaliv/2¢/Δ's/ 03:43, 2 June 2016 (UTC)
Mendaliv, it is a good photo and that's what could be unfair. Other people might have similarly great photos, with no recognisable "habitat", and they choose not to submit them for this challenge and instead submit something that better meets the theme. They might feel upset if your image does better than theirs. Some themes are hard to define and people seem to make different interpretations. The language translation isn't always successful perhaps. I think you should be happy with that photo -- I've never attempted a "bird in flight" image and I'm sure it isn't easy. -- Colin (talk) 19:45, 5 June 2016 (UTC)

Cleaning out old proposals.

There are a lot of proposals that have sat on the proposals page for a very long time without picking up support. At some point, I think we need a process for archiving those that have, for lack of a better word, failed. BD2412 T 00:41, 26 May 2016 (UTC)

Hi @BD2412: . Do you think this page could be OK ? --LW² \m/ (Lie 2 me ...) 01:26, 26 May 2016 (UTC)
I'm not referring to the page to which they are archived, but the process for archiving by which we decide to move discussions there. The discussions that have been archived to this point are only those that have been used; there are older discussions on the proposal page that will never be used. BD2412 T 01:29, 26 May 2016 (UTC)
Perhaps you could list the ones you think are unloved. Then we could allow a period where people comment on the proposal page in order to support/oppose/revise a proposal, and then decide that it isn't working and remove it. -- Colin (talk) 08:03, 26 May 2016 (UTC)
I would say that examples of proposals that have clearly been rejected include Commons talk:Photo challenge/themes#Analog photography II: Analog photographs, Commons talk:Photo challenge/themes#Common mistakes, Commons talk:Photo challenge/themes#Just point and shoot, Commons talk:Photo challenge/themes#Sunset, and Commons talk:Photo challenge/themes#Winter weather. BD2412 T 16:46, 26 May 2016 (UTC)

Adding help for gallery syntax -- translations required

I've added some more help on the gallery syntax. It seems a lot of newbies are very confused about entries (and can't figure out just to copy existing examples) so use wiki image syntax with square brackets, thumbs or even whole URLs. Could our translators please copy the changes to the other languages. The pages I edited are:

Thanks. -- Colin (talk) 12:34, 14 June 2016 (UTC)

User:Colin asked to be blocked indefinitely

If you go to Special:Contributions/Colin it seems like User:Colin asked User:Natuur12 to be blocked indefinitely and wants to be unblocked after a solution regarding Fae has been found. I do not know much about what caused this but if I have time to read through this I should be more informed. So in the mean time User:Colin is the one who run Commons:Photo challenge for last 3 years, and I do not know if we have know-how to run it in his absence. On Friday is July 1 and just in case "solution regarding Fae has been found" and Colin is not here to help, we will need to:

  1. pick next month theme before then and create pages for them
  2. create vote pages for 2016 - June - Manufacturing and 2016 - June - Rock formations: here and here
  3. score 2016 - May - Birds in their habitat and 2016 - May - Hats themes and pick winners

I do not know how to do any of those tasks, so let me ping people who were involved in this project in the past: @Anna reg: , @MichaelMaggs: , @Dschwen: , @King of Hearts: , @El Grafo: , @99of9: , @Jean-Frédéric: , @HelenOnline: , @Darkweasel94: , @Llann Wé²: , @Myrabella: , (sorry for people I missed). I am especially interested in documenting procedures used at each of the stages. --Jarekt (talk) 12:59, 28 June 2016 (UTC)

@Jarekt: I guess I won't help you because I don't know anything about all the tecnical of the challenge. I'm involved since the first but I never participate technically, I just did what anyone can do here. Sorry... --LW² \m/ (Lie 2 me ...) 20:58, 28 June 2016 (UTC)
@Jarekt: I can do #2 and #3 this weekend and share the python code used, similar to what I did for POTY R2... but I don't want to commit to doing this every month, and perhaps the project should be put on hiatus until a solution is found or someone else steps up. I know Colin did a lot of curating (i.e. asking people to remove extra votes or submissions), so it may be more work than it seems. Storkk (talk) 13:16, 1 July 2016 (UTC)
Storkk, thank you. Publishing Python codes would be great, and if you do task #2 and #3, I will concentrate on #1. I would not want to stop the challenge, because I am afraid that once we do, it might be hard to restart it again. I am willing to contribute some of my time filling in for Colin. It also could be a good opportunity to document how to run this, so it is easier for others to step in. --Jarekt (talk) 13:35, 1 July 2016 (UTC)
Colin has offered to share his scripts (not sure which language) before. Might be worth a try to contact him off-wiki? --El Grafo (talk) 14:49, 1 July 2016 (UTC)
I tried. --Jarekt (talk) 15:31, 1 July 2016 (UTC)
A couple questions regarding the voting pages... are they in a randomized order? section headings seem to be the filenames, is this correct? how about the thumbnail description - is that the gallery's "|description"? Can I assume that the gallery has been checked (i.e. I can parse Commons:Photo challenge/2016 - June - Manufacturing#Entries as the correct candidates apart from the Example file), or do I need to check each submission? Storkk (talk) 15:36, 2 July 2016 (UTC)
@Jarekt: In the interest of getting the ball rolling, I've just assumed that my guesses above were correct, and that the submissions are all OK. If they look good, please move Commons:Photo challenge/2016 - June - Manufacturing/Voting/test and Commons:Photo challenge/2016 - June - Rock formations/Voting/test to the correct locations, without leaving the redirects. I'll try to get the code into a releasable state tomorrow if those pages look good. Vote counting should be relatively easy, and my priority was to get these pages running first. Note that I have not checked the validity of the submissions... I've just taken the galleries as they are on the submission pages. Storkk (talk) 21:33, 2 July 2016 (UTC)
Storkk, thank you for working on this. After moving files into categories I checked the dates of upload through CatScan2 tool that allows to restrict pages based on the time of creation. I also wrote an SQL query: quarry:query/10731 to check number of files per uploader, and discovered that User:CatalpaSpirit had 5. I removed the last one and notified him of my action. Than I moved voting/test pages to voting. So the last thing that needs to happen is a code for counting results (task #3). I will be traveling next few days and might have limited internet access. --Jarekt (talk) 04:35, 3 July 2016 (UTC)
@Jarekt: That's great. I think this needs to be a manual check in the future in any case... I'll count last month's votes today, and hopefully publish some code. Storkk (talk) 12:17, 3 July 2016 (UTC)
Unfortunately, I won't be able to finish this until Tuesday, but at least this month's challenges are available to vote on now. Storkk (talk) 21:24, 3 July 2016 (UTC)
If storkk can publish the source code under OSI-approved license (this is for Wikimedia Labs requirements) and what I need to do is merely running the script, I can do it every month, but I'm no coder and I need the script to run. — regards, Revi 16:05, 2 July 2016 (UTC)
Thanks, -revi. It will be PD, just like the POTY script -- but although it should "just run" and spit out numbers/wikitext, the input needs to have the assumptions checked, so probably shouldn't be run semiautomatedly. For vote counting, it may be overkill but I think I will base it off of the Special:Export xml files, so they would also need to be generated (though I suppose they could just be fetched from the script in this instance, they shouldn't be nearly as large as the POTY revision histories). Storkk (talk) 16:11, 2 July 2016 (UTC)
I think I can do it, until I get conscripted(Estimated 2018, I think...) or Colin returns. — regards, Revi 16:16, 2 July 2016 (UTC)

I just found email with the full csharp code from user:Colin. I uploaded the source code to Commons:Photo challenge/code/CreateVoting.cs and Commons:Photo challenge/code/voting.cs, and can forward the full project and code explanation to whoever wants to give it a try, just shoot me an email. --Jarekt (talk) 05:05, 3 July 2016 (UTC)

I cannot run C# code (I'm not on Windows, and won't install Mono), but it's good to see the procedure. I'll use the same URL format to publish the python code. Storkk (talk) 12:17, 3 July 2016 (UTC)
@Storkk: You can run mono on Labs --Zhuyifei1999 (talk) 14:47, 6 July 2016 (UTC)
I managed to run Colin's C# codes and scored May results. --Jarekt (talk) 04:32, 7 July 2016 (UTC)

May results

Birds in their habitat: Entries • Votes • Scores
Rank 1 2 3
image
Title Stork-billed kingfisher with catch, Kole wetlands Thrissur Chennai, India Japanese white-eye
Author Manojk Mymoon Moghul Laitche
Score 25 15 14


Congratulations to Manojk, Mymoon Moghul and Laitche. -- Jarekt (talk) 03:48, 7 July 2016 (UTC)


Hats: Entries • Votes • Scores
Rank 1 2 3
image
Title Aufgenommen in Oelsnitz bei einer
Veranstaltung in Oelsnitz/Erzgebirge
(Landesgartenschau 2015).		 Hut als Blumentopf umfunktioniert
Hat converted as a flowerpot		 Hats at the Green fair, Rome
Author Kora27 F. Riedelio Albarubescens
Score 33 23 9


Congratulations to Kora27, F. Riedelio and Albarubescens. -- Jarekt (talk) 04:28, 7 July 2016 (UTC)

July themes

Time to pick July themes. Looking at number of votes

have the most votes. I think they are both fine proposals. --Jarekt (talk) 18:13, 27 June 2016 (UTC)

Other possibilities could be my proposals of:
--Jarekt (talk) 13:06, 28 June 2016 (UTC)
I'd say let's pick the first two. They seem to be quite popular, well-defined and don't exclude too many potential participators. Or maybe reduce it to just one theme this month to have a bit less stuff to worry about? --El Grafo (talk) 13:55, 1 July 2016 (UTC)
El Grafo, that is a good suggestion, so lets just do Working Animals. I will set it up this evening, unless someone beats me to it. --Jarekt (talk) 14:11, 1 July 2016 (UTC)
✓ Done I created pages for first two challenges. --Jarekt (talk) 02:28, 2 July 2016 (UTC)
Chiming in after the fact to agree. Cheers! BD2412 T 15:56, 17 July 2016 (UTC)

August themes

It is time to pick August themes. The themes with widest support are:

Please help picking one of those, or suggest other themes. --Jarekt (talk) 12:28, 27 July 2016 (UTC)

Given the unprecedented heat wave here, I'd go with the fire-based theme. BD2412 T 17:03, 27 July 2016 (UTC)
Undocumented_personalities would be better with some robust tools. Maybe we should ask for a list of wikidata item of living people without P18, the number of false negatives is reducing so it should be a good list to use. In any case I would think more carefully, if possible, on its organization. So let's do "Firefighters and fire trucks" (but not just trucks, IMHO, boats are ok as well) and Arthropods.--Alexmar983 (talk) 04:49, 28 July 2016 (UTC)
BTW Underwater photography has a lot of support too and would be better for the month of August where people are on holiday and have free time. Why don't we use that and postpone Arthropod to the next month?--Alexmar983 (talk) 04:54, 28 July 2016 (UTC)
I am fine with Underwater photography or photography fully submerged subjects. --Jarekt (talk) 12:12, 28 July 2016 (UTC)

As for Undocumented personalities, Proposed rules (not necessarily for next month challenge):

  • People with personal wikidata item, and more than month old biographical Wikipedia article in any wikipedia
  • People without any files (more than month old) depicting them that can be found by searching Commons or on pages linked from wikidata

--Jarekt (talk) 12:53, 28 July 2016 (UTC)

June Winners

Rock formations: Entries • Votes • Scores
Rank 1 2 3
image
Title Storm Over the Badlands in South Dakota, USA Gozo, Malta: The Azure Window The Grand Canyon showing washouts by the Colorado River, Arizona (USA)
Author Rapahanock Cccefalon CatalpaSpirit
Score 12 9 9

Congratulations to User:Rapahanock, CEphoto, Uwe Aranas and User:CatalpaSpirit. -- Jarekt (talk) 02:45, 3 August 2016 (UTC)


Manufacturing: Entries • Votes • Scores
Rank 1 2 3
image
Title Workers are cutting big timbers into planks in a sawmill in Sandakan, Malaysia Taken the photo from outskirts of Bengaluru during a workshop Ferreiro ou metalúrgico tradicional
Author Cccefalon Nikhilvrma Wagnerggomes
Score 21 14 14

Congratulations to CEphoto, Uwe Aranas, Nikhilvrma and Wagner Gomes. -- Jarekt (talk) 02:45, 3 August 2016 (UTC)

Limit to voting time

If I might be so bold as to offer a suggestion, how about specifying how long the voting will be open? At the moment, the Project page says who can vote, and I assume that the line must be drawn at some time to say whichever picture has the most votes at that time is the winner - but it doesn't say anything about when that time is. --Gronk Oz (talk) 08:48, 7 August 2016 (UTC)

✓ Done. Good idea. Thanks --Jarekt (talk) 12:24, 28 August 2016 (UTC)

September themes

It is time to pick September themes. I was thinking about:

Please help picking one of those, or suggest other themes. --Jarekt (talk) 12:31, 28 August 2016 (UTC)

People living in New York City will have difficulties to find undocumented geographical places. Therefore, one would have to include undocumented buildings in this challenge. However, that seems to collide with the wiki loves monuments challenge starting at the very same time. So please consider setting aside that theme for a month or two. Instead, as we have a hot summer in many countries, one may think about a beverages/drinking/water theme.--Zyperkux (talk) 07:11, 30 August 2016 (UTC)
I would consider undocumented buildings (that have their own articles) to be valid "places", but you are right that this might interfere with wiki loves monuments, by confusing some. We can postpone. --Jarekt (talk) 11:01, 30 August 2016 (UTC)
There are tools for showing "Undocumented places" but they rely on the improvement of P18 on wikidata. If you just wait another semester you can make great competitions. They were intended for this reason, in the end, focused upload of actually missing images. Both wikishootme and wiki needs pictures are under refiniment. The main problem besides interface details (or similar) is the funnel of the USA, thousands of items without P18 that are in fact documented on commons. So my advice is to simply wait. Progress is quite fast, there's no need to do now something you can do smoothly (with less false positives) just a little bit later.--Alexmar983 (talk) 22:33, 30 August 2016 (UTC)
Coming back to the choice, we need a second one with "Arthropods" right? Non-nature based themes with many and only positive "votes" are "Water Supply Infrastructure", "local culture", "domestic appliances", "nets" and "Clocks on public buildings". Now, "firefighting equipment" was already about objects, so this months I would balance with something more based on society, therefore "local culture". This proposal had a lot of comments especially months ago, there's no point in waiting further. We should also refine some details of inclusion about "nets" before proposing it, so please comment there during the next months (it is older, but it is slightly less "stable").--Alexmar983 (talk) 22:49, 30 August 2016 (UTC)
P.S. Can someone please update Commons:Photo challenge/themes?
Ok lets shelf the "undocumented" challenges for a while. I am fine with "local culture" as a second one, "domestic appliances" would be fine too, I am less enthusiastic about the "Clocks on public buildings" or "nets". Unless there is more discussion I would go with "local culture". --Jarekt (talk) 03:19, 31 August 2016 (UTC)
BTW I forgot as a possibility also "Traditional professions" but the "manifacturing" theme in June produced a lot of "low-technology" pictures, so I'll wait some months if possible.--Alexmar983 (talk) 12:28, 31 August 2016 (UTC)
I looked at "Traditional professions" and agree that "manufacturing" theme become a lot like like "traditional professions" (much more than I intended). So yes we should wait with that one. --Jarekt (talk) 19:29, 31 August 2016 (UTC)
I'm no photograph, I mainly ask for what I think is missing, so I'm not in their head... but I guess people think this choice is more "artistic" or they just prefer these types of images in their free time. Also "food production and processing" ended the same way with a lot of domestic and rural pictures. We can suggest a more specific theme next time, like "operative/open industrial plants" (or whatever sounds better).--Alexmar983 (talk) 20:42, 31 August 2016 (UTC)

July Winners

Working animals: Entries • Votes • Scores
Rank 1 2 3
image
Title Animals working in nepal Amish horses at work in north west Pennsilvania Yaks carrying load on the Everest Base Camp route in Nepal
Author Gunjan Raj Giri PeledY TT4FT
Score 32 17 15


Leaf veins: Entries • Votes • Scores
Rank 1 2 3
image
Title Veins of a wine leaf Junge Walnussbaumblätter im Gegenlicht
Contre-jour photo of young walnut tree leaves		 Veins of a dried leaf.
Author Ermell F. Riedelio Ermell
Score 13 9 9

Congratulations to Gunjan Raj Giri, PeledY and TT4FT, Ermell and F. Riedelio. -- Jarekt (talk) 03:29, 2 September 2016 (UTC)

October themes

I start to reviews the options for October Themes. Again I will ask if possible to postpone all the "undocumented X" challenges.--Alexmar983 (talk) 08:00, 23 September 2016 (UTC)

Global pit stop

Firstly, some "urgent" points that need to be addressed. I suggest we summarize some critical points once in a while as a regular pitstop, that's more important than just picking one out of 80 possibilities. I try not to enter in too much detail but...:

  • we "must" add some other comments to "Beer / Beer culture" and close it by approving or putting in the archive
  • the "Earth Science" challenge received lots of support in general. We should assume this translate somehow to the other sub-challenges I've spun off. Maybe we can soon greenlight at least Commons_talk:Photo_challenge/themes#Rocks_and_Minerals.
  • we need more comments on the "atmospheric"/weather challenges. too many doubt on clouds, no comments on backlighting, problem with generic titles....
  • I've suggest a reorganization of "Railway and Railway infrastructure". Please leave some comments.
  • the What is your ... ? series requires some additional comments too.
  • Regarding the "undocumented X" challenges, IMHO for the future we should use a generic format title such as "X (undocumented) for the archive. Maybe very generic concept such as "undocumented personality" should be archived under "U" (personalities means nothing) but I prefer to read "town halls (undocumented)" under "T" and "railways station (undocumented)" under "R".

Comments?--Alexmar983 (talk) 08:41, 23 September 2016 (UTC)

Choice

Now for the "easy" part. I would skip for this months everything that is doubtful and remove some old "solid" choice. We have so many possibilities!

Here they are: (I'm sure I did some mistake, please correct and add it to the list...)

There are the following challenges about "architecture"/"places" with many favorables users (more than 3-4)

Even if not stated, Theatre buildings probably should be moved to "undocumented theatre buildings" IMHO. Again, we'll have nice tools and/or wikidata query for that, just be patient if possible. So I would go for "Water Supply Infrastructure", one of the oldest one.

There are the following challenges about "countryside" and "agriculture" with many favorables users (more than 3-4):

Now gardening is better to do it now, later the season becomes terrible in the northern hemisphere. Or we wait until February. A intermediate season is ok for both north and south, but after October is not optimal.

There are the following challenges about "stuff" with many favorables users (more than 3-4)

Nets it is really old, should be approved.

There are the following challenges about "generic/creative" with many favorables (more than 3-4)

That's all.--Alexmar983 (talk) 08:32, 23 September 2016 (UTC)

My advice:

  • We should try to focus on those of 2015
  • We had on about spiders and similar stuff, so nets should be approved limited to artificial nets (as I suggested);
  • "Water Supply Infrastructure" should be selected, it is quite old.
  • I like "Numbers" but I would finally remove "gardening", we can't wait another 5 months
  • So I say "Water Supply Infrastructure" and "gardening".

All these lists are mainly for me to put some mental order sharing it. I am not thinking to make them every month, don't worry. ;)--Alexmar983 (talk) 08:41, 23 September 2016 (UTC)

Alexmar983, I am fine with Water_Supply_Infrastructure and Gardening. Thanks for starting this discussion. --Jarekt (talk) 12:56, 26 September 2016 (UTC)
Please, start all the discussion you want as well. I think with more than 30 "digested" proposal available every week we have to build some "procedures". Nothing rigid, just point out some aspects inter nos. A shared mental order.--Alexmar983 (talk) 13:15, 26 September 2016 (UTC)
Usually there is not much to discuss, as not many people participate in discussions about each month themes. So far two of us agree on two of them. Anybody is welcome to propose better options and than we can discuss the proposal. --Jarekt (talk) 17:50, 26 September 2016 (UTC)
I wasn't talking about that type of discussion. I think we know here how the monthly theme selection works. I was asking for a more accurate overall discussion once in while--Alexmar983 (talk) 01:58, 27 September 2016 (UTC)

Alexmar983 Maybe you want to have a first crack at creating Entry pages:

You can use this page as a template. --Jarekt (talk) 15:24, 29 September 2016 (UTC)

 Thank you. --Jarekt (talk) 20:41, 30 September 2016 (UTC)

Announcement on the Watchlist notice

The photo challenge themes and votes aren't announced anymore on the watchlist notice. Is there any reason for that? It was quite useful IMO... Gyrostat (talk) 14:30, 26 September 2016 (UTC)

No idea. My priority now are other "fronts". With calm, maybe I'll check that.--Alexmar983 (talk) 07:29, 1 October 2016 (UTC)

August results

Firefighters and firefighting equipment: Entries • Votes • Scores
Rank 1 2 3
image
Title CAL FIRE UH-1H Super Huey Two Calera, Alabama firefighters pause during a battle
against a residential housefire on April 27, 2016		 Feuerschiff im Golf von Finnland in St. Petersburg. Russland.
Author Tequask 31813D Kora27
Score 13 9 8

Congratulations to Tequask, 31813D and Kora27.


Underwater photography: Entries • Votes • Scores
Rank 1 2 3
image
Title Sea Turtle with Remoras - Marsa Alam, Egypt Christmas Tree Worm, Thailand, Spirobranchus giganteus Silhouette of scuba diver with the sun behind.
Author GiorgioGaleotti TimSC TimSC
Score 12 12 10

Congratulations to GiorgioGaleotti and TimSC. -- Jarekt (talk) 04:19, 1 October 2016 (UTC)

Organizing

I think we should improve the organization on some pages. From clear archive guidelines (not "rules", but "good advices") to maybe some statistics... I'd like to take care in order to leave a mechanism that can be taken in charge with minimal backlog and confusion by whom comes next.

So first steps:

  • can I split Commons:Photo challenge/Previous in many years?
  • can I transform Commons:Photo challenge/Previous in a place where we store a link to the "scaffolding code" for the archive to reuse, and a list of years and some statistics. i was thinking of a map with coordinates of winning images, and some sort of classification of typologies of challanges ("architceture and human places", "objects", "style of photography", "creative", "nature")

It will take some months. And I need some flexibilty, I cannot discuss every detail, I hope you can trust me on the big pat of the job and than we can fix it later... unless I'm not the only one interested in doing that of course.--Alexmar983 (talk) 07:39, 1 October 2016 (UTC)

That sounds fine with me. I was just noticing that Commons:Photo challenge/Previous is getting too big. I personally am also OK with giving you flexibility to work independently. Commons is a project with relatively few very active users and Commons:Photo challenge had very few people participating in organizing it. I am relatively new here as well, since only in June I began initiating discussions and running codes for processing voting pages when User:Colin, who started the project in 2013, abruptly retired. I am also a big fan of documenting how to run Commons:Photo challenge so we do not get in the situation like we did in June. --Jarekt (talk) 22:15, 1 October 2016 (UTC)
ok. Also we have to merge or coordinate with Commons:Photo challenge/themes.--Alexmar983 (talk) 10:45, 3 October 2016 (UTC)
O there it is I thought I have seen that page once. Good to know where it is. --Jarekt (talk) 11:47, 3 October 2016 (UTC)

Surplus images

Just an idea: What about adding a subpage or subsection to the the respective challenge page where we can add surplus images that are beyond the four images, that can be added to the challenge? It would be nice to see, which images related to the topic were created in the course of the challenge. For example, I have some more images about gardening but do not consider them to be good enough for the challenge. --CEphoto, Uwe Aranas (talk) 20:24, 2 October 2016 (UTC)

I sometimes have the same problem where I can not pick which 4 to pick. I often see that among the 4 images I pick, the images that get higher scores are not the images I thought will do well. Most challenges have associated category, maybe the best solution would be to allow surplus images to be added there. --Jarekt (talk) 20:49, 2 October 2016 (UTC)
A surplus could act as a limbo. In one gallery you leave the possible choice, in the other one the "final" choice. And you could see from the reactions (thank you, real time use, visits, comments in the talk pages) which is the best one. I inserted pictures of other authors, they allowed me to do so. So you can even wait if someone else insert the picture for you as well, if there is still space for one more. I have no problem to go the final day in the limbo, take a picture I like, update it to the competition, and than inform you... in the worse case you can replace it after me with something else. But in general this has to be well planned. In the meantime, I agree that a separate limbo archive is ok. We can put some suggestions such as "if you like someone else's picture in the limbo, tell him/her!" or "if you are not sure, put in the limbo, than pick up at the end". But this should be very well planned, at least graphically. --Alexmar983 (talk) 05:23, 4 October 2016 (UTC)
Well, if there is a fear, that it could be abused against the intentions of the challenge, we can add a simple restriction: Photos displayed on the subpage are not eligible for the challenge. --CEphoto, Uwe Aranas (talk) 05:56, 4 October 2016 (UTC)
I don't think there's fear of that, rather the opposite, that they are underused. I mean: I see a picture there that I like, but that you don't update at the end in the challenge even if you could. So IMHO the goal of a limbo would be also to help you in your final choice. --Alexmar983 (talk) 06:18, 4 October 2016 (UTC)
Now, I got it :-) It might indeed spice up the challenge a bit. --CEphoto, Uwe Aranas (talk) 06:30, 4 October 2016 (UTC)
I have an idea: we could say that original authors can upload maximum 4 pictures BUT everyone else can upload pictures of OTHER people, in the limbo. We can even reduce the threshold for self-upload. For the same reason I can vote for other pictures but I mine I can upload additional pictures but mine. it might need some organization, like a clear limit of 1-2 days for this "proposal" right before or after the end of the months. We can think about it. We can find a "simple" way to do it.--Alexmar983 (talk) 07:42, 4 October 2016 (UTC)
I think it is too complicated. If we make a lot of rules than we need to enforce them. And if the rules are not clear (especially to people that do no speak the languages they were translated to). --Jarekt (talk) 23:45, 4 October 2016 (UTC)
If managing is complicated, than the idea of a surplus itself might be complicated. In any case, if we manage to funnel it in something promising or efficient, this could increase the upload from new users.--Alexmar983 (talk) 12:35, 19 October 2016 (UTC)

Photo challenge results in awards?

Is there any list of which photos in the Photo Challenge get any award outside the challenge, such as Commons:Featured pictures, Commons:Valued images, or Commons:Quality images status?

I am curious if any photo has been submitted here, then identified as a candidate for further review elsewhere, then passing that other review. Blue Rasberry (talk) 12:57, 11 October 2016 (UTC)

If the entries to the photo challenge were in a category, then one could do a category intersection search and discover the mix. The entries that win photo challenge are excellent photos but do not always have the technical level required of FPC/QI. Of the challenge winners, the following are also Featured Pictures. There's a good number of QI and a few VI also. -- Colin (talk) 16:06, 11 October 2016 (UTC)
Someone a the end of the challenge should suggest the pictures for the status. We can add some suggestion in the presentation page, and maybe some rules that these uploaded pictures should be proposed only a the end of the voting month.--Alexmar983 (talk) 12:38, 19 October 2016 (UTC)

November Themes

FYI, just cleaned the proposal page of old or "comment-less" entries.

My small advice at the moment is:

  • We should start to have some "indoor"-"objects-oriented" challenges. It's been a while.
  • Again, please, let's leave the "undocumented" challenges on a hiatus up to the holidays so I'm sure I can propose some good refined tools.
  • I need some advice for the "railways/train" challenge(s), we have to be more specific, IMHO.

I take a closer look now and I make my suggestions.--Alexmar983 (talk) 12:45, 19 October 2016 (UTC)

I skip the one about domestic appliances because it's newer, but if anyone add another positive comment, we can consider that as well.

I stop here. If you agree on one of the above, the creation of the page is on me.--Alexmar983 (talk) 13:11, 19 October 2016 (UTC)

I think Earth sciences was discussed here (check archives) and Commons:Photo challenge/2016 - June - Rock formations came from it. If by "rock" you mean the "Commons talk:Photo challenge/themes#Rocks and Minerals" theme, then that would be fine as long as it is clear we are looking for identified specimens rather than just photos of rock anywhere. -- Colin (talk) 14:44, 22 October 2016 (UTC)
Yes, that was the idea.--Alexmar983 (talk) 13:13, 23 October 2016 (UTC)
So maybe we can do Rocks and Minerals with emphasis on identification and that could be our narrow "indoor"-"objects-oriented" challenge and than lets do some broad theme like nets or numbers. --Jarekt (talk) 01:57, 24 October 2016 (UTC)
"Rocks and Minerals" has always put emphasis on identification, as far as I know. I mean, look at the sample images. Than again the "key target" are the voters. If they say a picture without clear description is ok, than we give the prize in any case. We can do an "undocumented minerals" from wkidata info but we can organize that next time I guess.--Alexmar983 (talk) 03:15, 24 October 2016 (UTC)
OK, so we have one decided on. How about the second one nets? numbers? or something else? By the way in the past we did not just looked at the themes with the most votes so far. We also often considered new additions that sounded exciting. However back then there were often more people discussing this topic. --Jarekt (talk) 19:51, 26 October 2016 (UTC)
Whatever, my goal is also to keep the page "ordered". The more votes they have, the biggest amount of bytes I remove. Also if a competition spends too much time waiting in line, it may become outdated, or cumulate a lot of comments that might generate problems or changes. I try to be reasonably "efficient" basically, but again this is not the community vision, I know. And it is not even mine 100%, I just feel it's necessary now for some months, until the page becomes a little bit more "balanced". For example, next month I will suggest challenges with completely different criteria. And don't worry don't stay on an issue for long, I work everywhere, so after some months you won't see me doing this.--Alexmar983 (talk) 06:12, 27 October 2016 (UTC)
I start to prepare the one about "rocks".--Alexmar983 (talk) 06:22, 27 October 2016 (UTC)
The link should be Commons:Photo_challenge/2016_-_November_-_Rocks_and_Minerals--Alexmar983 (talk) 13:14, 27 October 2016 (UTC)
✓ Done--Alexmar983 (talk) 10:10, 28 October 2016 (UTC)
Great, how about the second one. Now I am thinking about doing Towers. --Jarekt (talk) 11:52, 28 October 2016 (UTC)
I really have no preference :D If noone opposes, fine with me. BTW, I am not going to lobby for an "architectural"-"infrastructural" challenge next month, because we'll have 99% " Christmas" which will include many objects, and I was hoping to include "guessing " because of the presents (and it's also difficult). So another "architecture"-"infrastructure" challenge after "water supply" is not a bad idea now. In addition to that, we had none in May, June, July, August and September. So it's time to have a little bit more.--Alexmar983 (talk) 15:01, 28 October 2016 (UTC)
So, Commons:Photo_challenge/2016_-_November_-_Towers? I am very busy with a deadline on the 1st, but I can come tomorrow to do it if it is still a red link. --Alexmar983 (talk) 11:43, 29 October 2016 (UTC)
My deadline is now an emergency because of a very "unethical" situation. So bye for the next days, you do the page... and I work on a Sunday.--Alexmar983 (talk) 14:50, 29 October 2016 (UTC)
I can take it from here, thanks. --Jarekt (talk) 01:49, 30 October 2016 (UTC)
Hi Jarekt I saw the link was still red, I did something (after I checked your edits). I disappear again, bye. I hope people can reuse pictures of water tower also here, that's a minor superposition, but ok, it is just one small possibilty. There is plenty of towers in the word!--Alexmar983 (talk) 11:01, 1 November 2016 (UTC)
I forgot to work on this last night, until it was too late to do much. I will finish it tonight. --Jarekt (talk) 12:47, 1 November 2016 (UTC)

September results

Arthropods: Entries • Votes • Scores
Rank 1 2 3
image
Title Crab spider (Unidentified Thomisidae) on Bearded Bellflower (Campanula barbata). Krabbe am Strand des Rotes Meeres in Ägypten. Male of a european jumping spider "Marpissa muscosa".About four fold magnification (ratio to sensor area). Munich (Germany)
Author Thiotrix Kora27 Thcilnegeg
Score 13 13 12

Congratulations to Thiotrix, Kora27 and Thcilnegeg. -- Jarekt (talk) 02:20, 2 November 2016 (UTC)


Local culture: Entries • Votes • Scores
Rank 1 1 3
image
Title Turkish tea offer alle 2 Jahre findet diese Messe in Ludwigsburg statt Sadhu sitting in the ground of Janaki Mandir, Janakpurdham Nepal.
Author Maasaak Achim04 Bijay chaurasia
Score 12 12 11

Congratulations to Maasaak, Achim04 and Bijay chaurasia. -- Jarekt (talk) 03:07, 2 November 2016 (UTC)

Thank you Jarekt for your monthly work. Hope we can keep you for a long time.--Alexmar983 (talk) 05:06, 7 November 2016 (UTC)
I have been here for a long time and not planning on stopping. --Jarekt (talk) 05:10, 7 November 2016 (UTC)

what about a specific upload for our challenge?

The meta wishlist survey is open. What about our challenge? I have to say, I'd like to see it improving on the long term.

I see a lot of newbies struggling with our interface, for example. I mean we can monitor and clean the mess, but this limits our workflow. What if we could create a specific link on a specific upload interface that not only guide the upload but automatically add the picture in the right place (of course users can still that page manually...) and also create the scaffolding for the voting phase in another page?

Or what if we ask to import some aspects of the new voting tool for wiki loves monuments, creating a free interface where everybody can log in and give a evaluation and than compute the final result automatically. Wouldn't that be interesting?

I mean it does not have to be like that, it does not have to be this year, but maybe there is something we can update. Because if we can make it better, we can upscale a little bit with the same manpower. Spam the competition around without being afraid if we receive 500 pictures instead of 50-150.

Is this only my "vision"'?--Alexmar983 (talk) 12:35, 12 November 2016 (UTC)

Alexmar983, I did not notice this thread. I like the idea of some more automatic uploader tool to make it simpler for the new users, although I would prefer to still have the option to do it the old fashion way, if needed. Also moving the processing scripts: CreateVoting.cs and voting.cs to java script would be nice so anybody can run it from their browser. Maybe a java script to make voting more automatic. We should also come up with better ways to advertise the challenge. Presence on Main_Page is nice but maybe we should mention the themes there somehow. I started posting results each month on Commons:Village pump, I should a add something about new challenge there as well. By the way Commons:Photo challenge/2016 - November - Rocks and Minerals does not have that many entries. I was thinking about extending it by a month. We used to do that much more in the past. --Jarekt (talk) 18:51, 23 November 2016 (UTC)
Jarekt I am flexible about extension of challenge, but I would prefer to see an extension with the opening of two new challenges in any case. If a challenge is difficult, there is not much to do. Some of them are selected because they are necessary, and few dozens pictures is still a good results for rocks and minerals. We should write some guideline somewhere soon or later. But in general I think it would be nice to give another chance without limiting the chances of a more successful one. Themes are rarely overlapping, many uploaders use old pictures (see exif date). We can in any case post it again in some local village pump, we still have 6 days. We should for the future maybe think about a threshold for the extensions, e.g. 50 pictures. We have already 20 good proposals and some are critical (guessing, fires and flames in technology) in the queue, so this is not an isolated case. Maybe we can start to go for 3 instead of 2 where a third one is the "slow one" from the previous month. This would not alter the general summary table, or the naming, probably not even the global amount of uploaded pictures. Especially if the message is clear on the main page and with a good tool to gear the workflow, that would be probably easy. What I mean is that we can still improve and make some tests in that direction, if we really want to.
About the update and voting tool, the time for proposal is almost at the end, but you can make one. I think I already used my 4 shots, and BTW you are more expert of the issue. So go for it. Maybe start with something smaller, we can ask for a grant on meta or wait for next year for a bigger update.--Alexmar983 (talk) 04:30, 24 November 2016 (UTC)

Commons:The Commoner

Hello, I created this page transcluded in the Commoner. Feel free to update it when it will be relevant. Regards, Christian Ferrer (talk) 12:38, 28 November 2016 (UTC)

Thanks.--Alexmar983 (talk) 06:01, 2 December 2016 (UTC)

December Themes

It is that time again and we need to pick themes for December. Some possibilities:

I like the idea of "holidays" theme even if it did not get as many votes as the rest. I would also suggest "Domestic_appliances" (old and new) or "Nets". I also extended current Rock contest. --Jarekt (talk) 04:42, 28 November 2016 (UTC)

I agree the Drone Theme might be a bit better off during Spring, but perhaps run in January before the new Christmas Drone crash and are out of the running ;). I 2ed the suggestion for Domestic appliances..--WPPilot (talk) 05:02, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
As i said, I prefer with Christmas to have "guessing" because of the present, which is one suggested possibility. If guessing is not selected I would suggest to choose nets or domestic appliances as indoor challenges before the end of winter. About the rocks and mineral challenge, on frwikipedia a user said that with an additional month he could take part to a prolonged challenge. In any case all the pictures of the current challenge seem very good, so maybe in the end in the global framework I am not too much dissatisfied by the limited amount of entries. As I said, I would like to see the challenge prolonged only opening two new challenges in any case, as the overlap is minimal and during holiday season people have more time. As a strategy, since we could end up with 3 challenges to vote, I would be nice to chose a second more selective theme. That's the problem. Christmas in December is a obvious choice but it means TONS of picture. So if we select two new challenges this month, the second one should be a "difficult" one. That's why I prefer "guessing". The other "difficult" ones on the above top list are barns or appliances.--Alexmar983 (talk) 07:43, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
I do not like "Guessing" challenge, since it is so unclear. I would suggest "Holidays" and Domestic appliances. And lets do "drones" in January. --Jarekt (talk) 14:34, 29 November 2016 (UTC)
In january? is it still too cold? I mean I am no expert... in many country at least it does not rain and the sky is clear.--Alexmar983 (talk) 07:51, 30 November 2016 (UTC) Appliance is a complicated challenge, so it should not give too many entries, and it's ok with an easy one like Christmas. Unless people submit by mistake too many ad-style pictures, but we can ignore those. So appliance is ok for me.--Alexmar983 (talk) 07:51, 30 November 2016 (UTC)
We will need to get the text of the challenge just right. The original proposal was about inner-working of domestic appliances, so may be we should call it inner-working of home appliances which include major appliances, small appliances and consumer electronics. We will need some better gallery too. --Jarekt (talk) 13:42, 30 November 2016 (UTC)
The proposal has not changed as far as i know. I tried my best to get a nice gallery, we don't have too many of these pictures, but I think it gets the idea. Mine was an hypothesis, in reality the uploader are quite well-behaved... as long as you write it in the description and the examples are clear, there is no doubt and a more generic title can be used. As we did with rocks and minerals, people uploaded samples as we requested. But you can be more explicit.--Alexmar983 (talk) 16:55, 30 November 2016 (UTC)

User:Evan-Amos did a great job taking photographs of video game consoles including many interiors like here. They are interesting but what is the use of interior of appliance if we have no photographs of the exterior. For example:

  • ColecoVision Exterior
    ColecoVision Exterior
  • ColecoVision Interior
    ColecoVision Interior
  • Mattel-Aquarius-Computer Exterior
    Mattel-Aquarius-Computer Exterior
  • Mattel-Aquarius-Computer Interior
    Mattel-Aquarius-Computer Interior
  • Nintendo-Color-TV-Game-Blockbreaker Exterior
    Nintendo-Color-TV-Game-Blockbreaker Exterior
  • Nintendo-Color-TV-Game-Blockbreaker Interior
    Nintendo-Color-TV-Game-Blockbreaker Interior

the interior photo is great but only photos of interiors would not be very useful without exteriors. User:B jonas, this is your proposal. Maybe we should tweak the challenge to require exterior+interior pairs for each object. We did run challenges before where we worked with image pairs: Commons:Photo challenge/2015 - September-October - 100 years later/Voting. User:Colin how much work was it to change your software to work with image pairs as oppose to single images? --Jarekt (talk) 17:32, 30 November 2016 (UTC)

Jarekt, I created a copy of my "create voting" program for the "100 years later" theme, and also used it for "Day and Night". I can send you a copy of it if you email me. I'm a little worried about a theme that suggest people take the covers off a domestic appliance to photograph it. Not only might this affect someone's warranty, but there are obviously dangerous voltages inside some appliances, and some gas appliances can only be opened legally and safely by a qualified engineer. Some appliances might photograph well "inside" even with the degree of opening that a user is normally permitted (inside a fridge, inside a washing machine drum, inside a vacuum cleaner's bag, inside a kettle). -- Colin (talk) 17:49, 30 November 2016 (UTC)
User:Colin: yes, you raise a valid point. This photo challenge might do too much harm if it makes people meddle with their gas stoves without knowing what they're doing. I guess this is an area that just isn't suitable for the photo challenge, and we should look for some other way to encourage people to submit such photos. Sorry. – b_jonas 21:58, 30 November 2016 (UTC)
I think we overthinked that. It was clear what we wanted, and some people have plenty of old things they can dismantle if they want too. Maybe it is probable the photo wouldn't have been perfect from the technical point of view but again, if you contact the local projects, the upload is not so bad. It wasn't my idea, but in the end I was more optimistic about it. And we needed something in that direction, something is better than nothing.--Alexmar983 (talk) 04:58, 1 December 2016 (UTC)
I also think that people should be responsible enough not to kill themselves by taking apart appliances without taking precautions to unplug them from electricity or gas. We can put a reminder the way original proposal had, but other than that lets assume that contestants are grown-ups or under grown-up supervision. I think we should still go with the challenge, and I think the interior/exterior aspect will make photographs more useful. Good example gallery will be a challenge because other than User:Evan-Amos work I do not see too many other examples. --Jarekt (talk) 14:17, 1 December 2016 (UTC)
Due to the lack of volunteers I agree with the practical concept that the guy who actively makes the challenge page has some freedom of interpretation. I think that the idea inside/outside is good but I would have used in another challenge, keeping this to whichever open and dismalntled device people can show and see the output. That being said, as long as a challenge can be prolonged without removing the choices for the following month, we can go with difficult task. We just keep it open more weeks, right? The warning in the presentation tastes a lot like "snowflake generation" but the times they are a-changing... I am sad not because it's ridiculous but because it might actually be a good idea.--Alexmar983 (talk) 06:52, 2 December 2016 (UTC)

Jarekt, I've amended the English description to say two separate images are needed, rather than permit one. It will be too hard to create the voting page if it is a mix of one and two-entry submissions. I've also changed the gallery to be perrow=2 so that both images are aligned. We did this on previous challenges and it helps when monitoring the page to ensure people's submissions are formatted correctly. We might also want to keep the page tidy with Outside/Inside as the order to display. I think also having two separate photos maximises the educational value of the images, as we don't really want to encourage people to combine photos into one JPG, when that is trivial to do at display time if required. Can you ensure other translations are corrected to be the same please. -- Colin (talk) 12:26, 3 December 2016 (UTC)

Colin, My plan was to manually add the image twice if anybody provides a single photo, but your approach is simpler. By the way I placed you codes at CreateVoting.cs and voting.cs ( and I am planning to write a short instructions on how to use them). Could you upload you codes for dealing with 2 images? --Jarekt (talk) 14:25, 3 December 2016 (UTC)

Jarekt, wrt the sample images, I'm not really happy to show a gas boiler with the cover off. In the UK it is illegal to remove the cover from a gas appliance and the cover forms part of the mechanism that ensures all gases are expelled outside rather than into the room. With the cover off, there is an increased risk of carbon monoxide poisoning, and it is essential the cover is replaced securely by a trained engineer. Further I don't approve of the photo that shows an electricity meter with the cover removed. Unlike domestic appliances that are wired after the consumer unit (which has fuses and an RCD protecting the mains) should someone touch a wire here, there is no RCD to trip and potentially save their life. Furthermore, opening an electricity meter is very illegal in the UK and I would assume most countries, as this is not part of the electrics that consumers are permitted access to. I regard such examples as encouraging illegal activity and really not wise. I'll try to find some more suitable alternatives. -- Colin (talk) 12:33, 3 December 2016 (UTC)

I am fine with replacing example images with better ones. I do not know about UK laws or appliances but in US gas water heater is designed for easy access and maintenance. As I recall, the pilot flames are prone to blowing off and you have to take cover of to check on it and restart it. The units were designed for you to do it. Then you close the unit do it vents properly. --Jarekt (talk) 14:25, 3 December 2016 (UTC)

Commons:Photo_challenge October results

Gardening: Entries • Votes • Scores
Rank 1 2 3
image
Title Scarecrow at Baddesley Clinton Gardening_in_London Old gardener sows beetroots in Estonia
Author DeFacto Ibex73 Maasaak
Score 15 11 11
Water Supply Infrastructure: Entries • Votes • Scores
Rank 1 2 3
image
Title Supply of drinking water in Hong Kong Water tower near Mittweida, Saxony, Germany Marmeaux, old wash house in Burgundy, France
Author Cccefalon Kyriondaniel Ibex73
Score 26 21 16

Congratulations to DeFacto, Maasaak, Cccefalon, Kyriondaniel and Ibex73.

Please check out this month challenges --Jarekt (talk) 04:40, 8 December 2016 (UTC)

A discussion in scope for all content creators

I started a discussion here which is meant for all content creators who are less active in admin boards. Feel free to express your opinion there to avoid broken discussion here and there. Thanks for your cooperation. Jee 06:29, 8 December 2016 (UTC)

Voting

Is it just me or voting in challenges with more than 100-150 pictures is difficult? I mean I have to take in mind a dozen good candidates, than make a list. And if the upload is slow is almost impossible. It's a pity because good challenges have a lot of uploads. For the towers challenges I basically stopped to review, make a partial list and close it there.

Maybe we could start with the new year to think a more flexible system? A system where a single picture can be evaluated without the context, as it is now with 3 compulsory position 1 2 and 3? This can also dilute the evaluation in more steps if people have less time. What about a voting system from 0 to 3, where we can give the same votes to more than one picture? In the end with 150 pictures, it is normal that more than one is ok for the top list. You force to choose a narrow difference and with a lot of candidates if the voters are not enough you might have even quite random results.

To limit "abuse" if we don't accept a totally free system we can force the existence of only a 3/3 vote. Or we can accept more than just one 1/2 and 2/2 even if within a limit.

Only if you also think it can be implemented. If you think it's just me ok...--Alexmar983 (talk) 06:44, 2 December 2016 (UTC)

I also find it sometimes hard to vote. Images are often slow to load, even with the fast connection and the list can get so long, it is hard to look at it all. I usually keep a written list of the candidates for the top spots. I am also concerned about top of the list vs. bottom of the list bias. I am not sure if your proposed changes would help with my issues, but I would be OK with changes if there is strong consensus about it. --Jarekt (talk) 13:39, 27 December 2016 (UTC)
The only real alternative on the long term is to speed up with a WLM-like interface. Maybe it is time, the infrastructure is getting "old"... but in the end WLM system works with a multistep approach. First you say yes/no, than you vote 1 to 5. All of it is photo-based, it requires to suggest "a list of position" only at very last step, that is the third step. With 150 pictures you don't need so many steps, you can focus on the second one, the voting. It is just not smooth to pick a number 1/2/3 in easy way even if they upload easily... and they often don't. I think a voting system with 1, 2 or 3 in a free way it could work.--Alexmar983 (talk) 23:11, 28 December 2016 (UTC)

January themes

It is time again to pick January themes. Last month we agree to do Drones this month (while they are still running). WPPilot, One challenge I see is that it requires specialized equipment and skills many of our frequent contributors will not have, so we would need to reach out to some new contributors and alert them about the challenge.

Looking at the lost month list of themes with most support:

My vote would be for the Railway challenge. By the way, I extended the home appliances challenge so there is a time for more photos. And a reminder to this month participants that Holiday challenge is running for a few extra days to allow people to add New Years photographs. --Jarekt (talk) 14:06, 27 December 2016 (UTC)

 Support Railway as number 2. I am willing to post in the DJI Facebook Groups, but it would be wise to have something NOW rather then next week to direct them too so that each new Drone pilot has a "user friendly " landing page that will get them excited about contributing.. I have noticed a few users that have already offered UAV photos and gave them a heads up.. --Don (talk) 16:37, 27 December 2016 (UTC)
Don, I will try to have the page ready in a day or two, unless someone beats me to it. However Commons:Photo_challenge is a good landing page that will be updated for sure in the first days of January. --Jarekt (talk) 20:21, 28 December 2016 (UTC)
Don, Initial draft of Commons:Photo challenge/2017 - January - Drone photography. Please improve if needed. --Jarekt (talk) 14:27, 29 December 2016 (UTC)
 SupportEstoy a Favor de Clocks_on_public_buildings, pienso que puede ser interesante y podrá permitir el aumento en Commons de ese tipo de fotos, muy válidas, donde la arquitectura y el objeto reloj se presentan juntos, además de que contribuiría también a mostrar instituciones, edificios o arquitecturas de antaño o actuales, que usan ese tipo de combinación.--Ivan2010 (talk) 19:28, 27 December 2016 (UTC)

I start to like to this 2+1 system with a two-month difficult challenge. I kinda hoped to have 3 challenge per month with some more specific themes here and there. Concerning the choice, fine with me.--Alexmar983 (talk) 23:17, 28 December 2016 (UTC)

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